When Student loan becomes IRD debt

Because I own a house and am trying to get a rental investment to work Anne Cleaver representing the IRD (Inland Revenue Department) believes I should take out another loan from a bank (incur new interest) to pay their student loan interest debt. Although my assets in real terms have been dropping since 1994 because I have to keep topping up my living accounts from my assets earnt before the student loan.

Robin Hood never had a pen to sort out The Sheriff of Nottingham so the bastard survived. But now at least we can Blog.

Don’t be fooled by the hype that student loans are designed to give everyone an opportunity to education. This is IRD bullshit; they are designed to give the Government a debt. Then they can say internationally they are a big time business, we can borrow x because we are owed xx.

In 1994 I became unemployed with out any redundancy when the freezing works went into receivership. At the time I was naive enough to think the student loan was good for the Government as Government represented us the tax payer. And if someone was going to get an education they should pay us the tax payer something for that. What a crock of shit that is, we should be educating any one of our citizens to as higher a degree as possible for the good of us all, simple as that.

Anyway I agreed to have a student loan; I had a freehold home from working in the freezing works for 14 years and flexographic printing for 4. I had given “EManuel Labour” a fair enough experience and now wanted to try and use my intellect a bit more, (for experience – R U). That was the big flaw in our “drop out drop in” philosophy; it actually allowed a whole generation of morons to go into admin and government.

I couldn’t survive on the student allowance alone and I had taken out a loan on my house a couple of months before unemployment to re-roof . So by the time I had finished getting my IT degree - once again I had a mortgage, but now I also had a student loan and had lost four years of working income.

I never for one minute in my life have believed the Government should be applying interest to a student loan. So every year when the IRD sent me details of a debt because of interest this burned me, my accountant advised me – don’t worry I’ll sort that. Short story is they never did and now although the Government has changed the policy to no interest on student loans, guess what they are calling the interest that wasn’t paid a “debt.”

I borrowed about 20 thousand for my degree with interest that became over 30 thousand, remember I also had to increase my mortgage every year to stay a full time student and I wasn't earning any wages for 4 years.

So now working in New Zealand this is what the IRD gets: (from a 45 hour week 855.00 gross in 2006 – I used to earn that much in the freezing works in 1994 with no student loan and a freehold house.)

PAYE $194.61
Student loan $52.50
Child support $144.80
Student debt $125.00
TOTAL IRD TAKE $516.91
FOR ME $338.09

NEW ZEALAND PERSONAL TAX PERCENTAGE: 60.5%

It didn't matter - desperate and initial

You guessed it - I didn't provide the loan break-down and come eligibility time I get a letter saying benefit starts on 2nd August, just as notified way back when.

I also got a letter from the local WINZ manager trying management 101 skills. Completely ignoring all my points and entirely focusing on a negative interpretation of my referral to a woman's knife attack some time ago on one of the case officers.

Just in case he is so slow and didn't make the connection that was my take on the old cliché "the pen is mightier than the sword."

If that is the case and he only knows Management 101 - well what can I say?

Labour Party Policy - Student Loans

So the latest Labour Party election promise is to make student loans interest free IF the graduate stays in New Zealand. Whoop di do - this is only bringing us inline with the rest of the western world where student loans have always been interest free - with no strings attached.

If they wanted to make a social statement they could take a couple of grand off the student’s loan for each year they stay in New Zealand.

Desperate Frustration

28th July 2005
Andrew Moller
2 Lachlan Drive
Dinsdale
Hamilton

Work and Income
Stephen Faifai, Service Manager
Dinsdale Service Centre
Hamilton

REF: letter dated 21st July 05

Dear Stephen

As previously noted, I believed on 4th or 5th of May I had all the necessary details to meet what was requested on the forms given to me at the pre-seminar, all filled in and signed.

It has taken me a couple of days to figure out how I could make a civil reply to your last letter. I no longer have any sympathy for the case officer who was attacked by that knife wielding woman, this must have been her desperate response to cut out evil.

In your reply you have given me a different case officer but requested the same duplicate information – this amounts to, simple apologetic rhetoric way beyond patronage. From your reply it is obvious this is not just a personality clash with Aimee Le Lieve but a deeper problem with your department’s interpretation of its policy and purpose.


1. On my first appointment, WINZ had no record on their computer I had attended the pre-seminar. They later said it didn’t really matter anyway.


2. WINZ wouldn't accept a recently expired passport or my drivers license as ID, both with photo ID on them, I was told to go to the District Court and get an affidavit to declare that I was who I claimed to be. After living in the Waikato for 30+ years with the last 5 being a tutor at the local tertiary institution. Not only had I produced identification, I already had a case number identity from a previous experience with WINZ in 1995, I was told it didn’t really matter anyway.

When I returned with the court affidavit I was told it didn’t really matter anyway.

I was told I would have to get a birth certificate or passport, this cost me $75.00 – only $5.00 short of half what my entitlement for a whole weeks budget is supposed to be.


3. WINZ wouldn't accept my final pay notice from Wintec as detailed enough. It didn't show how the severance was split, whether any was holiday pay. I was told to go back to Wintec and get the payroll officer to fill in one of the department forms. I believed this was unnecessary since they were going to stand me down for the maximum time anyway…you guessed it I was told it didn’t really matter anyway.


4. WINZ wouldn't accept my details about a rental property and told me to go to my accountant and get a Net Equity statement of the property. My accountant has all my legal and other relevant documents, so to contact and interrupt his normal process of filling my tax return would be incurring additional professional expenses for me, when I am unemployed…you guessed it I was told it didn’t really matter anyway.


25th May:
I finished this interview requesting WINZ makes an appointment for me with the supervisor regarding the additional details requested about the rental property. It didn't seem right that the department was asking me to incur additional professional fees from my accountant when all the details needed had been supplied, Bank Statements showing the loan balance and Property Manager Statements showing the rental received and a Net Equity Statement from my accountant.


12th July:
During this appointment WINZ bought Janet Oldfield into the picture, I assumed this was an accountant or someone who could understand the bank statements.

After a lengthy search and conversation with someone on the phone Janet found a web page related to rental properties, but this did not read to me as meaning “in every situation this is what must be produced” e.g. it had repairs expenses listed. To me it read as a guideline - certain expenses could be used to validate that there is no personal income.

The bank statements showing a principal of $165,000 has already proven under any loan there is going to be more interest alone than rent received. That nobody could produce a budget that would enable somebody receiving a $160 per week benefit too use that to pay principal.


21st July
I receive your letter still requesting this principal interest breakdown from the bank.

Both Aimee and Janet have asked me how the benefit is going to pay this loan. I have told both of them the current loan is about to run out, before the benefit entitlement would begin, and I’ll need to negotiate another term. That this will have to be an interest only loan and as a last resort I’d be asking my son to make up the difference each month until I get another job, or I’ll have to sell the property (most likely).

I have told both Janet and Aimee if they are that concerned the department is somehow going to be paying principal I would be happy to write a declaration that this isn’t possible and not going to, could never, happen, no matter what term the loan will be.

But we all know this doesn’t really matter anyway, that the department’s real goal is to humiliate and make customers jump through needless hoops. This is the department’s policy or there is some evil within the Hamilton office/electorate.

Let me put it another way, I’ll give you a budget where I’ve spent your $160 and it doesn’t include principal on a rental property loan. If you really need them, while I’m receiving this great benefit, I can keep the relevant receipts where $160 was spent each week. If you can produce an alternative budget I’m desperate to hear it.

Food: $70
Rent/Rates: $80
Electricity: $15 (already over budget)
Telephone: $15
Clothing: ?
Car: Loan ?
Petrol ?
WOF and rego ?
Repairs ?
Medical: ?
Dental: ?
Insurance: ?
HP: ?
Credit Cards: ?
Student loans: ?
Child support: ?
Income tax: ?
Property maintenance: ?
Rubbish disposal: ?
Sports: ?
Xmas Gifts: ?
Professional fees: ?
Miscellaneous expenses: ?
Savings: ?


Faithfully



Andrew Moller, BIT, CCNA

CC
Neville Williams, Maria Tipene (couldn’t be related to Tom), Internet


PS
I am not surprised at the scepticism of yourself and the case officers when you try to figure it out. How can a man in New Zealand exist on $160 per week unemployment benefit without lying and doing something criminal to supplement it. If you really think about it they are not the criminals. You are producing criminal behaviour. I’m challenging anyone to produce a budget for that amount, I haven’t come up with one - yet come Monday it could be my reality.

Unless you persist and decline my application again and insist I somehow prove you can live on nothing in this Labour lead Godzone.

http://labourinnz.blogspot.com/


Do you remove evil by cutting off its head or breaking its back?

What was their career decision based on…I want a job where I can be a…hole.

Initial Frustration

13th July 2005
Andrew Moller
2 Lachlan Drive
Dinsdale
Hamilton

Work and Income
Stephen Faifai, Service Manager
Dinsdale Service Centre
Hamilton


Dear Stephen

I am not happy with the professionalism, ethics, personality and/or attitude of my case officer in Dinsdale, Amy. Instead of giving me "support" Amy seems to be hell-bent on humiliating and making me jump through needless hoops. I would like to be having meaningful conversations with my case manager and get details like how would part time or contractual work affect my entitlement, instead we finish every meeting negatively with me sent off on some meaningless errand to find duplicate information for her.

4th or 5th May:
On my first appointment, Amy had no record on her computer I had attended the pre-seminar. Yet I could identify the room and person who took it, according to my records it would have been 21st April 9:15. She said it didn’t matter anyway.

I believed at this point I had all the appropriate details to meet what was requested on the forms from the pre-seminar, with the forms all filled in and signed.

However Amy wouldn't accept a recently expired passport or my drivers license as ID, both with photo ID on them, I was told to go to the District Court and get an affidavit to declare that I was who I claimed to be.

Amy wouldn't accept my final pay notice from Wintec as detailed enough. It didn't show how the severance was split, whether any was holiday pay. I was told to go back to Wintec and get the payroll officer to fill in one of your department forms. I believed this was unnecessary since you were going to stand me down for the maximum time anyway.

Amy wouldn't accept my details about a rental property and told me to go to my accountant and get a Net Equity statement of the property. My accountant has all my legal and other relevant documents, so to contact and interrupt his normal process of filling my tax return would be incurring additional professional expenses for me, when I am unemployed.

10th May:
On my second appointment, Amy wouldn't accept the Court Affidavit as proof and told me I had one month to get a birth certificate or passport!

Amy wouldn't accept the way the payroll department at Wintec had filled in her form and told me to go back and ask for a different breakdown. I told her no, I wasn't going to wander around Wintec asking for a breakdown, if she had another form for me to ask them to fill in I'd do that. She didn't have a different form, so it suddenly became unnecessary.

Amy wouldn't accept the statement from the accountant, because she said it could have been done by one of my friends!! Even though the statement had their business letter head and his personal signature.

11th May:
Amy phoned me and told me my entitlement would begin on 1st August, and that I had one month to produce a passport.

I presumed reason had finally prevailed.

21st May:
I opened a letter from you, Stephen Faifai dated 10th May, and it told me I was not getting the benefit because I hadn't replied to a request for information? I hadn't opened it earlier because of Amy's phone call that everything was sorted and my entitlement was starting 1st August.

23rd May:
Because of the letter received, I phoned the Department 0800 number and they emailed Amy to contact me.

I got no word from Amy so at 3:30 I phoned and made an appointment to see her.

24th May:
Amy phones and tells me it was nothing to worry about it just meant the system only keeps a record open for 5 working days!
I still needed to produce a passport or birth certificate.

25th May:
I finished this interview requesting Amy makes an appointment for me with her supervisor regarding the additional details requested about the rental property. Amy said that person was away on holiday and she would arrange it when she returned.

I am very disappointed in Amy's attitude here, she was insistent on me returning a number of details I could see no valid reason for other than to once again humiliate and make me jump through unnecessary hoops. It didn't seem right that the department was asking me to incur additional professional fees from my accountant when all the details needed had been supplied, Bank Statements showing the loan balance with my monthly instalment and Property Manager Statements showing the rental received and a Net Equity Statement from my accountant.

No word from Amy

10th June:
Friday, I phoned Amy and left a message, asking when the appointment could be, considering it was supposed to be last week. Amy phoned back and left a message on my answer phone that she would be busy next Monday and would phone me Tuesday with an appointment time - that never happened.

12th July:
I got sick of waiting and just went down to the office.

This meeting started with Amy asking if I had bought in the required documents, I said I had a passport and that she already had my bank statement account number to pay the entitlement into. Amy also asked for the rental property documents. To which I said at the last meeting Amy or her supervisor was going to show me where in the system it said I had to do that. Amy then said she had made a phone call to me about this and left a message on my answer phone. And because I had not returned the call she hadn't done anything about it. I said that was not correct. What had happened was on Friday I had phoned her wondering when it was happening that I had been sitting around all week waiting and that I'd be coming in on Monday to see her. Her message, on my answer phone, that day in reply said she wasn't going to be available on Monday and Tuesday she would be calling me regarding an appointment - this never happened. Amy said it did, I said if it did then her system would have a recording of this, because there was no such message on my machine at home. If Amy did make it that would have been Tuesday 14th June, I never received it.

Her entire attitude is one of I don’t have to do anything you have to do everything.

During this last appointment Amy bought Janet Oldfield into the picture, I assumed this was an accountant or someone who could understand the bank statements.

Looking through the documents Amy had on file there was no copy of the real estates statement I had produced at the earlier meeting. It was very suspicious and I noted Amy photocopied mine again and this time date stamped and signed it - that is not the first copy I had produced for her.

At this point of the meeting I believed Amy had lied to me about her phone call and purposefully lost documentation.

After a lengthy search and conversation with someone on the phone Janet found a web page related to rental properties, but this did not read to me as meaning “in every situation this is what must be produced” e.g. it had repairs expenses listed. To me it read as a guideline the purpose was - certain expenses could be used to validate there is no personal income.

This is what I don't understand, the bank statements had already proven there is no income from the rental property these show that shows the mortgage is $165,000 plus. From this any one with a calculator could prove $240 per week rent doesn't even cover interest alone, so why is it necessary to produce another break-down of the current loan into principal and interest. The expenses, interest alone, are already proven to be greater than the income. If it is not just a ruse to once again humiliate me and make me jump through any hoop she chooses to give me.


I have been a taxpayer all my life now I am just expecting work and income support from my local service centre not harassment and humiliation.



Faithfully



Andrew Moller, BIT, CCNA


CC
Neville Williams

Dole - Tax's and Redundancy

So I want the Dole:

I have been a working man all my life, now I want some Government support.

There is an automatic one week stand-down before anyone gets the Dole in New Zealand. Why, who knows - and whoever who is - their logic sucks.

I'd like to tell the New Zealand Government NOT TO TAKE ANY TAXES from me for ONE week after I get employment, yeh right.

But I recieved redundancy from my last job - so the stand-down is an additional 10 weeks. I'd like to tell the New Zealand Labour Government NOT TO TAKE ANY TAXES from me for ELEVEN weeks after I get employment, yeh right.

I earn't holiday pay at my last job, 3 weeks in the final pay. So on top of the 11 weeks now there is another 3 weeks. I'm applying for the unemployment benefit and the Government agency is telling me to take a holiday????!!!!

I'd like to tell the New Zealand Labour Government NOT TO TAKE ANY TAXES from me for FOURTEEN weeks after I get employment, yeh right.

Child Support Insanity

So I'm redundant:

A major factor in this is my principle belief the Child Support formula in New Zealand sucks. I'd rather be on the dole paying the minimum $10.00 a week Child Support than:

If I work full time I have an additional tax on my income of $120.00 every week. Going to a women who, I would bet on it, is putting this directly into her savings account.

$120.00 come on: since this should be an equal contribution. On that basis $240.00 every week is being spent on a 10 year old child who is home-schooled!!. If I get the dole here, in New Zealand, I'll get $160.00 each week. How can the Labour Goverment tell me to live on $160.00 a week and give a woman who has never worked anywhere except on her back a budget of $240.00 a week for a 10 year old.

Where is the incentive or justice in that formula? Or is it all part of the big picture to casualise the labour force making men choose the dole and invite women to work part time.

In the Park

So, today I thought I'd go and have my burger king at the park.

What a wonderful park it is - at the Hamilton Gardens. Acres of lawns, thousands of trees and flowers.

With all those acres you would think the guy with the motorized lawnmower could find somewhere else to work while the only visitor to the area enjoyed their lunch. I am suspicious, do these places have supervisors hiding in the bushs with radio contact - "over there quick, look busy."

Despite the systems best efforts I had some great moments there. One was wondering about destiny, I think there is destiny - I watched a leaf fall to the ground; that leaf was destined to drop at that moment.

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